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Thing Frankfurt 13.10.1993 - NY

13. 10. 1993

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Message #440 - ARTS
Date: 13-Okt-93 10:02
Von: David Platzkerv An: Wolfgang Staehle
Betreff: Re: SEPTEMBER BOMBS
Antworten: #439 <--> #448

Ah, Judd, a God of mine too. However, a little known truth is that Judd looks to Oldenburg as a God. Hate to say it but Judd wrote a glowing review of Oldenburg's The Store in 1961. They've remained close since then. Note that the cover photo wasn't quite complete -- Agnes Martin was also missing as was Serra.
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Message #441 - ARTS
Date: 13-Okt-93 12:21
Von: Tz'art
An: Eli Kuslansky
Betreff: Re: COMPUTERS & GOD
Antworten: -> #473

help, caught naked in the system.

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Message #442 - ARTS
Date: 14-Okt-93 11:22
Von: Morgan Garwood
An: John Dunn
Betreff: Re: EVERYTHING STARTS WITH AN E
Antworten: -> #524

shroom season indeed.
Years ago I had a teacher who as a young idealist supported the rise of the Iraqi Baath party, the same one the Saddam Hussein still controls. Once he understood the reality of the frankenstein that he had naively given his energies to, the scales fell from his eyes, as it were, and he fled to the West, always looking over his shoulder to a degree. This was long before the media got wind of Saddam's true character.
Anyway, the good Dr.X had come to conclude that the world boiled down into two dynamics; one was Power, which he concluded most things public were, regardless of stated ideals, and the other was Everything Else.
Yanni Pasnakoff, a highly unusual Russian Greek of my aquaintance, mentioned once that the ancient Greeks had the concept of the Idiotos, or personal self, as well as the public self (if it has a name, I never heard it). One had, then, two selves to answer to, and two planes of excellence to aspire to, one internal, and the other public.
An "idiot", in this conception, was one who had only focused on the personal

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Message #443 - ARTS
Date: 14-Okt-93 21:50
Von: Dennis Summers
An: Jeff Harrington
Betreff: ART SUCKS ETC
Antworten: -> #444

I hope I'm not too late to comment on the Art Sucks -Beauty's Cool controversy. I recall learning about beauty in a philosphy of art class once but I never really understood what they were gett{ng at. You went from Plato's beauty as true imitation which supports the state, to Augustine's beauty which supports the god, to Schrodinger's beauty which supports the "objective" experienced by a will-less person in the face of the sublime to Camus and beauty as the perfect form of rebellion. Maybe I'm a little simple but their were just too many different beautiful things out there for me to find this term to be of much use. Reading over everybody's notes at once, while a bit overwhelming (does this make it beautiful? see one of your earlier messages) just confirmed my attitude. Definitions that weren't verbal double-talk were few and far between. And your original note really did nothing to define this word. Perhaps this ambiguity led to the long life of this subject. Jeff, you want art that overwhelms you on the one hand, yet on the other you want to retain zen "beginners mind" (that which would be a

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Message #444 - ARTS
Date: 15-Okt-93 10:45
Von: Morgan Garwood
An: Dennis Summers
Betreff: Re: ART SUCKS ETC
Antworten: #443 <--> #445

if you look around you'll find that the "White Male" construct doesn't hold water. Some of the best abstract art, within my domain of beauty, are the rugs woven in the Caucasus (during the winter, when there isn't much else to do), some of the Southwestern tribal weavings (much,much better seen than a quantity of the hi order abstraction du jour), Celtic metal work, Precolumbian mesoamerican stone, ad infinitum.
After a phase of reflection, I couldn't help but conclude that in spite of their technological limitations, these cultures produced, and some continue to produce, work as fine as the Whitemale lineage. And what is intrinsicallyF wrong with the W.M. work anyway? And which W.M. are we talking about anyway; Egon Schiele, Titian, Giotto, Mario Merz, Vito Aconci, Norman Rockwell, Daumier, George Stubbs, Mark Kostabi, The Guys That Built Stonehenge, Dave Berg, Who? And at what point did White Males cohere into this unified glob of oppressive phallocentric history twisting eco-trashers whose idea of beauty was Lots More Of Everything?
Where were we, anyway? Ah, beauty.

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Message #445 - ARTS
Date: 16-Okt-93 16:04
Von: Dennis Summers
An: Morgan Garwood
Betreff: Re: ART SUCKS ETC
Antworten: #444 <--> #446

I think you may have missed my point. I am in complete concurance with your choices of fine "abstract" work. In fact this is mostly where I find my own personal inspiration. However, when I look in my history of art books -books which supposedly define "beauty" which has "stood the test of time", I see no examples of what you listed. And although there is certainly a small group of us who enjoy the examples you described, it is rare to see those in any written text on "beauty". Or maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places.

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Message #446 - ARTS
Date: 17-Okt-93 00:10
Von: Morgan Garwood
An: Dennis Summers
Betreff: Re: ART SUCKS ETC
Antworten: #445 <--> #447

weeeelll...yes, you're right about the Official History, or the Canon, or whatever it is currently known as. Perhaps you have read Frank Stella's unintentionally hilarious self promotional Art History published back in the mid '80s (when else?), which "proved" that he (who else?) was the natural, er, conclusion to this great adventure.
Holy Sheboygan! Frank Stella? Then I took a gander at the Roy Lichtenstein spectacular over at the Guggenheim, another purported End Of History As We Know It gesture. More like a loose muffler dragging on the pavement under the Klunker of History.
Shame on me! Lack of team spirit, no doubt. But how did we get sold this bill of goods on what the past meant and all that. Martin, this Chinese painter and eccentric beyond compare, was going on about how kinky the Japanese found western taste in art, they found crucifixion iconography unbelievably nutty and were confounded that we could be so fixated on it for such a long period of time.

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Message #447 - ARTS
Date: 19-Okt-93 20:21
Von: Dennis Summers
An: Morgan Garwood
Betreff: Re: ART SUCKS ETC

Antworten: #446 <--> #450

Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I think that things have been and will continue to change. There seems to be much more attention paid to "regional" artists, and although it is is still unbearably inadaquate, more attention to work produced by women and minorities. I hope that the "official" canon will in 50 or 70 years start to reflect this. Although the computer/information revolution will undoubtably change much of how we see everything. Perhaps painting and sculpture will end up seeming good but quaint and out of date the way book arts are often seen. (I am not putting down book arts, being a practitioner myself). However, I still maintain that we will need to see a change in the power structure (read white capitalistic men) before any of these changes will be put into proper perspective.

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Message #448 - ARTS
Date: 19-Okt-93 21:32
Von: Vera Graaf
An: David Platzker
Betreff: Re: SEPTEMBER BOMBS
Antworten: #440 <--> #449

Ctrl-Z
Just a question about the Roy Lichtenstein Show at the Guggenheim: he's presented like a kind of American icon. Whoever wrote the review in the Times mentioned that he was virtually "uncriticizable". He's certainly presented as such: only paintings, no drawings, no documents, no insight into any kind of inner process. A seemless, streamlined career, starts w/ a splash in 61 (?) with his first pop-painting, "Look, Mickey..."No mention of earlier work, doubts, crises, just hagiography. I've asked a few people, mostly artists, about his work and their opinion. Praise, only praise.
Isn't there anyone who has anything critical to say about the man?
If so, I'd love to hear it.

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Message #449 - ARTS
Date: 19-Okt-93 22:59
Von: David Platzker
An: Vera Graaf
Betreff: Re: SEPTEMBER BOMBS
Antworten: #448 <--> #457

First a small error correction -- there are a few drawing in Roy's show, but you will have to search the Tanhauser wing of the Gug to find them (find the video room and peek around the corner). I think that the Gug. failed for a number of reasons to make the show complete. First the curator didn't take a _critical_ look at the artist. Yep, I think it's that simple. This show was set out to be a non critical look (the book too). There so much that could have been said that wasn't. For a more interesting look I hope you saw Hand-Painted Pop while it was at the Whitney (or MOCA,L.A., or MCA, Chicago) -- at least there was some attempt to take a look under the paint at what " Inspired" many of the Pop artists. I'm willing to say that I think Roy's a good artist, but a simpleton. Is that bad? Not really, just as flat as Roy's sculpture.

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Message #450 - ARTS
Date: 20-Okt-93 00:34
Von: Morgan Garwood
An: Dennis Summers
Betreff: Re: ART SUCKS ETC
Antworten: #447 <--> #451

if anything is certain, it is the degree of flux. Given the economic strength of the pacific basin, the growth of the Indian middle class, the coming of Indonesia, the rise of a black professional class in America, power surely isn't going to be limited to a "white"-ocracy simply because it is European derived.
Exactly what power is and how it operates appears to be going through a metamorphosis all of its own. I might add a twist to some of the older concepts of power by considering that power today is very much involved with the capacity to adapt. The tools by which one might have exercised power in the Reagan era are becoming obsolete, i.e. the overwhelming media sell of a lifestyle/attitude/orientation. The tools to pierce the veil of the spectacle/illusion are becoming more robust, or "powerful", in their own right, so we end up with a cluster of subjectivities that resonate around central themes (forshadowed by Ornette Coleman's harmelodic improvisational method of tone centers) rather than an opaque pseudo-objectivity of "indisputable opinion".
Name your art; film, music, scrimshaw, comic books, nudes executed in chewing gum, "power", in the sense of getting over in the marketplace, is in DISTRIBUTION. Regional art exists by the dumpsterload right here in Noo Yawk, but can be as isolated as Madonnas carved in the New Jersey Pine Barrens. --- TBBS v2.1/NM
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Mess age #451 - ARTS
Date: 20-Okt-93 12:59
Von: Jeffrey Schulz
An: Morgan Garwood
Betreff: Re: ART SUCKS ETC
Antworten: #450 <--> #453

I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that overwhelming media sells are becoming obsolete. I've been tracking the debate over twentysomethings, and this is a perfect example of media selling a lifestyle/illusion /orientation.

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Message #452 - ARTS
Date: 21-Okt-93 22:07
Von: John Dunn
An: David Platzker
Betreff: Re: MULTIPLES / DUSSELDORF

I thought it wasn't that cool but I could be wrong. I could tell you more if you have any more concrete questions. No urge to give a report. I did flags at the Kirstin Kloeckner Stand. I wanted it to look like a tourist trap but it ended up just being artists on flags. The Buchholz thing was the best but also just throwing shit in the fan. Someone even did the throw the paint blob on the wall thing. Fritsch showed her old white brains(a German representative for Bianal 94). Cheap hollograms(starting at 100 deutsche maerker), 3/4 life size lego kids building lego stuff at the Lego stand, a lot of Beuys and Penk, piles of abstract and geometric abstraction. What kind of cool stuff are you looking for? Maybe you can jolt my memory; it is almost a month ago.

--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
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Message #453 - ARTS
Date: 21-Okt-93 10:41
Von: Morgan Garwood
An: Jeffrey Schulz
Betreff: Re: ART SUCKS ETC
Antworten: #451 <--> #458
right, I agree on that. But becoming obsolete isn't the same as being obsolete. Gerard Celente, who has a market research company up in Rhinebeck, just published some work on reality vs. assumption of the "x", 20-something, 13th, name your poison, generation.
Often portrayed as "savvy" (what does "savvy" mean anyway?), wise beyond their years, informed, penetrating, and largely hip to Boomer duplicity, and so forth, are in reality (Celente writes for the marketing profession, remember) narrow, defensive, conformist, badly informed, and cohere out of fear. They are, in other words, sitting ducks for the campaign to whip up some taste conformity. USDA Prime.
However, granting all of that, a newly emerging mental "transactional space" (Yo, Jordan) appears to be expanding on us. Hybrid beastie, It. Seemingly of the system and hostile to it at the same time, where Internet feeds into Mondo and Wired, loops through a reborn drug culture, leaves its footprints on thousands of BBSs around the country (world), hits the Dish Wallahs in India, on and on and on, It can only make the Hegemonizing of

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